Baldwin Ode Banjo Serial Numbers
Apr 28, 2011. The 'ODE' name is pressed is into the peghead and there are no serial numbers or model numbers anywhere to be found. From what I can gather reading web sites, etc., I'm fairly certain it's not one of the later BAldwin or Gretsch-made instruments. It's been poorly stored (no case) for many years and is very corroded in spots. Banjo aficionado Ed Britt and I inspected the banjo thoroughly and we came to the conclusion that it's definitely a transition model from the time when ODE was taken over by Baldwin in the late 1960s. In fact it doesn't even have a serial number. It has all the specs of a pre-Baldwin/ODE banjo but already with the Baldwin banner in the headstock. Feb 06, 2011. Mar 13, 2016.
| ARCHIVED TOPIC: ODE Identification |
Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/207525
jmmcdona - Posted - 05/27/2011: 06:20:33
I have a chance to purchase an ODE that looks identical to the photo I've included. This one in the photo recently sold on Ebay, but I need help positively identifying it. I thought it was a Style A from the pre Baldwin days, but like the Ebay ad the seller asserts it is mid to late 70's model (which would lower the price). Can anyone identify this style of ODE banjo and tell me the difference between it and the pre Baldwin 1964/65 style A?
More photos at: cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-BALDWIN-O...7bacace30
Thanks in advance.
slowdeath - Posted - 05/27/2011: 06:39:38
Could be a Style 2 I think. On the lower end of what they made then. Still a cool banjo If you can get it for the right price.
Scooter Muse - Posted - 05/27/2011: 08:37:55
Ed Britt or Mike Stanger will chime in on this shortly Im sure....If not drop either one an email (on my top friends list on my page) and they will have ALL of the answers for you. They have certainly helped me.
Scooter Muse
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/27/2011: 12:33:03
quote:
Originally posted by jmmcdona
Can anyone identify this style of ODE banjo and tell me the difference
Hi John --
A '64-'65 Boulder-made ODE Style A is a wood-rim banjo.
o The Boulder-ODE 'Letter' designations were all wood-rim banjos, -- with
Baldwin Ode Banjo Serial Numbers
coordinator rods -- and made in Styles A, B, C, D, E & F -- Low-to-high--
indicating the quality grade.
(Note: Except for the EARLIEST c1961 ODE aluminum-rim banjos --
which were stamped A, B or C to indicate the quality grade.)
o The Boulder-ODE 'Number' designations were all aluminum-rim banjos --
with dowelsticks -- in quality Grades 1 thru 5 originally.
(NOTE: There were some 'floor-sweep' ODEs, made in Boulder, during the
transition to Baldwin. Some of the necks with 'fiddle'-shaped pegheads -- intended
for the wood-rim banjos -- wound up on aluminum rims, and used dowelsticks for
After buying ODE, Baldwin also kept those designations separate:
o The 'Style 2' was an aluminum-rim banjo -- with coordinator rods --
just like the one you linked-to on eBay.
o The Styles A, B, C, and D were all wood-rim banjos -- with coordinator
rods.
ODE, BALDWIN, Baldwin+ODE & then ODE again:
Baldwin took over ODE in June of 1966. Shortly after that, they started pro-
ducing the 'BALDWIN' (banner) banjos. There were some subtle changes
to the styles, while the 'BALDWIN' banjos were produced in Boulder. But
they are the closest in style, and in quality, to the original Boulder-made
ODEs.
In early-1968, Baldwin stopped production in Boulder -- in preparation for
moving banjo production to Arkansas. Arkansas began producing banjos
by Sept. '68 -- and the Boulder shop was closed. The newly-designed
Baldwin Style C was introduced, and the Style B was discontinued, and
the Style D lost its 'propeller' at the 22nd fret.
Some of the early Arkansas production used semi-completed parts, made
in Boulder. And the banjos remained fairly true to Boulder style, and quality,
until the early-70s.
Around 1972, 'ODE' was added to the pegheads -- below the 'Baldwin'
banner. Apparently There were at least 2 fires during the early '70s. Production
levels, stylistic details, and quality suffered somewhat, during the mid-70s.
Sometime during the Summer or Fall of 1977, the 'Baldwin' banner was
removed from the peghead, leaving only the name 'ODE' in the peghead.
The peghead profile was also redone -- to bring it back closer to the shape used
on the original Boulder-made ODEs. Some other stylstic and quality improve-
ments were also made.
In 1980, Baldwin's parent company went bankrupt -- and the 'Baldwin'
banjos came to an end.
Hope that helps.
Best --
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 05/27/2011 12:39:32
Scooter Muse - Posted - 05/27/2011: 14:14:44
See there --- TOLD you Ed Britt would know! Hey Ed!
jmmcdona - Posted - 05/27/2011: 15:02:20
So this is a late 70's Style 2? Not to be dense, but what about the ODE models 6500, 33 and 6510? How do those fit into the numbering scheme?
Ode Banjo Value
John
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/28/2011: 11:31:16
quote:
Originally posted by jmmcdona
So this is a late 70's Style 2? ...
Hi John --
Don't really have enough information to say, for certain. You said the owner
thinks it's a 1964-'65 ODE Stye A --
But then you say it looks like the eBay late-'70s 'ODE' (by Baldwin) Style 2.
Well, a resonated 1964-65 Boulder-made ODE Resonated Style A DOES
look *somewhat* similar to a late-70s Resonated Style 2... to the untrained
eye.
Check out the 1965 ODE catalog PDF on the OME website, to see the details
of an original 1964-65 Style A:
I've attached Page 4&5 *BELOW* -- so you can see the 1965 resonated Style A.
NOTE:
1. Remember that the ODE Style A had a WOOD rim. IF the banjo has a
wood rim -- and it's all original -- it probably IS a Style A.
2. Note that the Style A peghead shape is exactly the same as the upper model
Style D peghead. It has 'waist-cuts' to make it resemble a fiddle. (Unless
it was made with factory-installed cam D-tuners. Then it would NOT have
the waist-cuts.)
If it has an ALUMINUM rim -- and only has 'ODE' on the peghead -- it could be:
o A 1966-'68 Boulder-made 'floor-sweep'. A combination of mis-matched
old-stock parts. Like a Style A woodrim neck, on an aluminum rim. That
could have happened in either:
o Mid-'66 -- when they were in the transition of changing from ODE
to Baldwin. (It would be an 'official' ODE -- with a dowelstick,
stamped with 'ODE Boulder, Colo.' and a serial number in the
19xx to 21xx range.)
o Or in mid-'68 when when they were closing-down the Boulder shop.
o A homemade 'kit-banjo'. ODE was one of the first companies to sell
parts for all of their banjos. Including completely finished necks and
rims. Someone could have bought a Style A neck, and an aluminum rim
-- and married them together. (It would NOT have a serial number)
o An early-'70s Arkansas-made Baldwin-ODE Style 2 -- missing its
aluminum Baldwin banner. The pearl 'ODE' was inlaid. But the
aluminum banner was only held-on with adhesive. Some have fallen
off. Some were removed by the owner.
o A late-70's Baldwin-made 'ODE' Style 2
Baldwin Banjo History
The Baldwin-made Style 2 used the simplified 'fiddle' peghead shape --
WITHOUT the waist-cuts. (So an earlier Boulder-ODE Style A peghead,
with cam-tuners, would be basically the same shape.)
One other MAJOR difference between Boulder-made ODEs and Baldwin
Style 2 -- the shape of the flange-plates:
o The Boulder-ODE resonated Style A used individual 'Vega-style' flange
plates, with notched corners.
o The Baldwin-made resonated Style 2 used the newer-style individual
'H' plates -- that mimicked the look of the fancier holes in the cast-flange
wood-rims.
Baldwin Ode Model D Banjo
quote:
... but what about the ODE models 6500, 33 and 6510? How do
Boulder-made ODE aluminum-rim banjos were given 2-digit 'Model'
designations. The Initial run of 100 banjos were ALL longneck openbacks.
They used the cylindrical 'Series 20' rim, and were were called the 'Model 21'
Once ODE started making OTHER types of banjos:
o The 1st digit described the RIM series (Series 20, 30, or 40).
Series 20 -- Simple aluminum sand-cast cylinder
Series 30 -- There is some confusion, because there were TWO
types of 'Series 30' rims produced:
30 Type 1 -- 52-hole integral sand-cast aluminum archtop
30 Type 2 -- 'Modular' DIE-CAST aluminum rim, w/ integral square
tone chamber. The raw rim was machined -- to create
either a Flattop, or Archtop configuration.
Series 40 -- Used the SAME raw DIE-CAST rim, as the Series 30
Type 2 -- but the top of the tone chamber was was
machined to take 3 different types of BRASS tone rings:
Type B -- (Bluegrass) was a sandcast FLATHEAD tone ring
Type F -- (Folk) was a rod-on-plates FLATTOP tone ring
Type R -- (Raised) was a rod-on-plates ARCHTOP tone ring
o The 2nd digit described the neck-type:
x2 = 5-string standard - 22-frets
x3 = 5-string longneck - 24-frets
x4 = 4-string plectrum - 22-frets
x5 = 4-string tenor - 19-frets
x6 = 6-string guitar-banjo - 22 frets
So... a 'Model 43' would have a diecast alumimnum rim, with a brass tonering,
and a 5-string 24-fret longneck.
A 'Model 33' could be:
o a Type 1 (52-hole sandcast) -- with a 5-string 24-fret longneck.
o a Type 2 (diecast) machined as a flattop, or archtop -- with a 5-string
24-fret longneck.
The 4-digit model designations 6500, 6510, etc. are mid-to-late-'70s Baldwin
(Gretsch Division) catalog number. I don't have my catalogs at hand, to give
you the specific designation for each number -- but...
#6500 = Style D 5-string Resonated
#6505 = Style C 5-string Resonated
#6510 = Style 2 5-string Resonated
Hope that helps, more than it confuses you...
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 05/28/2011 11:37:28
1965 ODE Style A |
jmmcdona - Posted - 05/28/2011: 13:15:40
Wow, I'm printing that response off and keeping it for future reference. Above and beyond and much appreciated.
Thank you very much.
John
jmmcdona - Posted - 05/28/2011: 15:47:52
Ed,
I have been confused about these ODE designations for a long time. For the first time I think I understand them. Mind you, I had to print out your email, lay it on the table and draw a chart on another piece of paper...but I think I got it. As slow as my mind works that is no small feat.
John
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/28/2011: 16:33:17
Downloading the PDFs of the period catalogs will help a lot. But be aware that not ALL of
the known ODE catalogs and brochures are in that group. Some are very rare -- and even
One thing to remember is that Ogsbury started ODE in the Fall of 1960. (He filed the for
the ODE Trademark on 12/24/60.) He went from making crude banjo-shaped objects, in
early-1961, to creating the finest production banjos made since 1942 -- in just 5-1/2 years!
The sale to Baldwin was announced on 6/6/66. (Mark of The Beast!)
The crew at ODE was moving SO fast, that some construction and detail changes never
even made it into the catalogs. Once they developed the wood-rims, in 1964-65, the
aluminum-rim banjos were only cataloged in Grades 1&2. (Though you could still custom-
Even with the wood-rims... The gorgeous, top-of-the-line, carved and engraved Styles E & F
were NEVER actually shown in the (last) 1965 catalog. There's just an engraved armrest
Our friend Scooter is one of the very few lucky devils who has one of those to play:
Best-